A cut in operating hours at the Tony Rose Memorial Sports Centre has been proposed to save money in the town's 2006 budget, but residents who appeared before town council Monday night indicated they would prefer a higher hike in property taxes.

The residents also didn't like the idea of programs, such as some pool schedules, being shifted to the Alder Street Recreation Centre, as they prefer to swim in the Tony Rose pool since it tends to be warmer and is more accessible for seniors and people in physio therapy.

Discussion of the proposed cuts of Tony Rose dominated a two-hour debate without any significant progress being made toward a final decision on the final 2006 budget and Mayor Drew Brown expressing his exasperation at the slow process.

He showed his frustration when speaking to the residents, telling them they could have the Tony Rose operating hours left the same, if they could live with having another significant tax increase.

The issue of accessibility was raised by Mary Jane Gerber.

"The Tony Rose pool is accessible," she said. "The walking distance between the handicapped parking and the pool itself is manageable. From the car to the change room is about 20 metres. From the change room to the water is mere steps."

"This is a huge issue for the handicapped, elderly and those in rehab from an injury," she told council, which was sitting as the Finance and Administration Committee. "The Alder Street pool is very difficult to access. The walk from the handicapped parking to the change room is at least 60 metres. The walk through the change room to the pool is another 10 to 15."

Ms. Gerber is in her third year of rehab after suffering a serious pelvic injury that left her barely able to walk. In the beginning stages of

her therapy she found the distances at Tony Rose difficult, but over time she was able to drive herself and walk in through the handicapped door.

However, when the Tony Rose pool was closed for maintenance she needed her husband to drive to the Alder Street pool and then get a wheelchair and help her in it. They also had to go through this process when he picked her up.

"There are many people who are able to get to the Tony Rose pool independently, who would be unable to do so at Alder Street," she said.

One resident suggested instead of only some Tony Rose programs being shifted over to Alder Street that maybe some of Alder Street's programs should be moved to Tony Rose as well.

"There's no reason both needs can't be addressed," she said.

Councillor Rob Strang said he recognizes that Tony Rose is the preferable pool to swim in for seniors and suggested a consultative committee be formed to deal with the issue.

Angelina May had many questions for the councillors and mayor.

"When you're talking about budgets and money you can't just say, 'Well these are the dollars.' You need to also be discussing the impacts of decisions on staff and taxpayers."

She added, "I think that's why we're all here, because we're the ones feeling the impact."

Ms. May said she bought a swim pass in November and wanted to know what kind of rebate she would be receiving since the circumstances under which she bought the pass have changed.

Deputy Mayor Jim MacGregor said that will be dealt with when and if the changes have been implemented. He noted the Town can't expect residents to continue paying what they are if the deal they bought their pass under has been changed.

Ms. May also wanted to know how much money each resident was saving by these cuts being made.

Treasurer Wayne Church did some rough calculations and the estimated dollar figure was $4 to $6.

Ms. May remarked she would be happy to throw in that money if it meant the hours weren't going to be reduced, which triggered huge applause from the other residents present.

But Deputy Mayor MacGregor said they have to realize there might be 8,000 households in the community who do not agree with that.

Ms. May fired back that residents who take the time to come to the meetings versus those who just sit at home and complain about taxes are the ones who need to have their voices heard.

She also said for $6 it wasn't worth spending as much time as they have on this - for both the staff and councillors.

Councillor Ken Manwell said it should be remembered they were talking about annual savings. He added that the facility was over-staffed, something that had to be dealt with.

He added that a proposed $217,000 budget cut wasn't just related to the pool, but rather the whole recreation centre.

Ms. May said they need to be looking at the big picture. If operating hours are cut then user loyalty will be lost, which is difficult to get back.

"The minute you start shifting services, it's going to - in the long-run - cut down on the number of people willing to invest in the Town and their services. Maggie Bah, a teacher at Princess Elizabeth, said students at the school have been swimming at Tony Rose for as long as she can remember.

Noting her job involves working with specialneeds students, she said the school board pays for these students to swim every week as it's a form of physiotherapy and teaches the students life skills.

If Tony Rose is cut back, she said, there is no guarantee her students will be accommodated safely at the Alder Street pool.

Also currently the students can walk to Tony Rose, but would need to be bused to Alder Street, at a cost that may not be included in the school board's budget.

"To have to lose the swimming time would be devastating to my students," she said.

She added there's nothing like watching a child in a wheelchair being placed in the water and feeling freedom.

"If we lose this opportunity you may as well be cutting off their legs."

When Mayor Brown asked those present who among them paid taxes to the Town of Orangeville, most of them raised their hands.

He then asked, with a frustrated and stern voice: "Are you okay with a 10 per cent tax increase?" (He later noted he meant the currentlyproposed 6.71 per cent.)

The response being a mix of yeas and nays, he added: "Because if you are, we can stop this meeting and you can have what you want, everybody can have what they want and we can pass the budget this evening."

The mayor then noted this was the longest budget process he had gone through in 15 years as a member of council.

"I've never been through a budget process as long as the one we're going through now because we are desperate to cut taxes, because people are telling us they're desperate to have their taxes cut."

He added, "There's nothing we can do at this point to bring in a tax increase of less than five per cent that doesn't involve cuts somewhere."

He said if council had chosen to go with user-pay garbage that would have shaved three percentage points off the tax increase.

He also mentioned that some articles in the local press have headlined how much the council had raised taxes during its term, which is about 25 per cent.

He then rhetorically asked how any government at any level could live with that.

Council, he said, is left with the decision whether the town wants no change in services or to have a tax increase of about five per cent.

Mayor Brown also said the present council has spent more money on accessibility than any other two or three councils combined in the past.

"We've hit a wall where we can't provide the services we are now, without another significant increase in your taxes in terms of percentages. It doesn't amount to a lot of dollars on the bottom of your bill.

"But, we have to live with the fact that people will talk about percentages. We have to live with

the fact that there are people out there telling us we're taxing them out of their homes, that we're taxing businesses out of town.

"When cuts are made, nobody bleeds more than we do," the mayor added. "There's not one member of this council who wouldn't stand on their head, probably naked on those ugly medians on Broadway, if it would mean we could provide all the services at a cost everyone feels they can afford."

Stating council is faced with some tough decisions, he said people "have to know if we're going to make these cuts somebody's going to hurt. We will do the best we can."

Other proposed cuts discussed by the councillors included sale of the Fibre Optic Cable Network, renting the Northview Room in Tony Rose and introducing summer ice in one of the arenas.

The fibre optic sale would bring in $100,000 to be put towards the budget.

"Although, as a onetime opportunity, this initiative does not present a sustainable saving, it is a sound way to utilize the value of the asset," said a budget update from Treasurer Wayne Church.

A motion passed by the committee called for the town to proceed with sale of the network, although that would be subject to approval of the Orangeville Hydro board.

Mayor Brown was not satisfied with the proponent's proposal to pay $7,500 to rent the Northview Room for a year, as he thought the Town could get more.

Councillor Manwell, thinking along the same lines, wanted to know what the square footage of the room was. Graham Burke, director of parks and recreation, said it was about 2,000 to 3,000 square feet

This item was removed from the list as the mayor said he would rather see the opportunity sit so they can see what other offers are out there.

Mr. Burke said this was the only response received as yet to the proposal to rent the room.

Stating he understands that, Mayor Brown said he didn't think the offer was good enough.

A suggestion to have a rink left with summer ice was not well received by Councillor Doug Wilcox.

He said lacrosse teams in town need all four rinks to use during their season.

However, a motion was passed to explore the option.

A few other minor cuts made during the discussion shaved off $128,000 from the grand total, which brought the budget to $16,705,600 if the capital spending remains the same.

In order to have taxes raised by just 5 per cent - council's goal for this year - another $141,000 needs to be found.

A 5 per cent increase would leave the "average" homeowner with a property assessed at $221,300 facing a property tax increase of about $176, with $72 of the increase being for town purposes, $85.24 for county purposes and $18.58 for the provincial education levy.

The next budget discussion will take place on April 24, although a Public Consultation Committee meeting is scheduled for the date as well.