It was only the second time they had met, but Orangeville's Citizens' Commission on Finance was already showing frustration Monday evening with how slowly the process for recommending cuts in the Town's 2007 budget was moving.

Committee member Don Cameron told Chair Sylvia Bradley he had a problem with the minutes from the previous meeting. He suggested that since the minutes said no recommendations were made it would appear the committee hadn't been doing any work. He would rather have had it say recommendations were pending.

Instead, since it was determined the first meeting was just a discussion, the statement was removed from the minutes.

Murray Parsons said he didn't realize a motion was needed for each recommendation. If the committee continued moving this way, simply discussing the budget, the committee wouldn't be able to make any changes to the budget.

"It's difficult for me to understand how we're going to effect any change if we keep on rambling on and ask a few questions here and a few questions there," said Mr. Parsons. "I think we're going to have cut services to actually get reductions, so how do we make those recommendations?"

Councillor Bradley said a recommendation needs to be made and then voted on by the committee. She noted council is sitting in on the meetings and listening to what is being said.

Information about development charges was brought forward to this meeting based on a discussion from the previous meeting. Since 2001 the Town has exempted all industrial businesses from paying development charges, which has equated to $2.8 million from 18 properties. Treasurer Wayne Church said if the town attracts new industries, any lost revenue from development charges will need to be made up through the tax levy or water and sewer rates.

"There's a cost to that exemption," said Mr. Church. "It doesn't just go away."

Tom Sudak wanted to know what kind of benefit this has had for the Town, such attracting more industries and therefore creating more employment opportunities in town.

It was also suggested the Town conduct an exemption background study, but on the advice of Chief Administrative Officer (CAO) Rick Schwarzer it was decided it would be best to wait until 2009, when the next background study is due, as it is a time-consuming and costly project.

The majority of funds - 89.63 per cent - in the operating budget are spent on salaries and benefits and some of the members were curious as to how salary increases are determined.

Mr. Church said the Town uses a salary grid based on the rate of inflation, as approved by a previous council.

Jim Jordan said the rate of increase, about 1.4 per cent, for town staff is somewhat meagre in comparison to other municipalities, which increase salaries by 2.5 or 3 per cent annually.

"I know we're trying to look into keeping costs down, but staff is the most valuable asset," Mr. Jordan said.

Councillor Scott Wilson asked when the last time a salary survey was conducted. Mr. Schwarzer said it was last done in 2004 and it has been council's policy to look at it every three years. Currently there is no money in the budget for a survey this year, but Mr. Schwarzer said it was up to the committee and council to decide whether one is conducted this year and put into place for 2008.

The budget included $40,000 for a proposed tourist building. Mr. Parsons said the Town should not pursue building it and remove the outlay from the Small Business Enterprise Centre's budget and put it in reserves. A motion to this effect was passed.

Mr. Parson also was not comfortable with the Town spending $30,000 in advertising in local papers for the biweekly "Town page" for the year. His recommendation was to have the communications officer obtain quotes from each paper and have a report come back to the committee. This was not passed as a motion, but a report will be coming back including this information and the amount of coverage of Town events that each paper carries.

The committee recommended removing another $33,000 from the budget by not hiring a health and safety officer this year.

Three departmental budgets were presented to the committee for discussion on Monday. The committee chose to adjourn before discussing the Public Works Department budget, which will be addressed at the next meeting on Feb. 12.

The Information Services budget shows a $100,000 cost recovery from sale of the Town's fibre optic network. Mr. Sudak said this gives an illusion the overall budget is $163,000 when in reality it is $263,000. His motion to have this item transferred to the capital budget was approved.

Alex Martin, who works with facility management software, said he can install a program on the Town's server that would crunch the volume of materials used and could reduce expenses. As an example he said he was able to save the Dufferin-Peel Catholic District School Board $2.5 million. This type of service normally costs $3,000 to $4,000 he said, but he's willing to do it for free.

Mr. Martin also suggested the Town have a fundraiser where they collect ink cartridges from the community and a company picks them up and gives the money for it.

However, Stacey Hunt contended that both recommendations were of pecuniary interest to Mr. Martin and presented him with a conflict of interest. "I'm not at all ethically comfortable with either of those recommendations."

She said if the committee wanted to move forward with those recommendations it should be done through a request for proposal (RFP).

Without explaining, she also suggested that Mr. Martin should not be allowed to participate in such a competition.

The Fire Department budget is proposed at just over $1.5 million. Stating that's a 7.9 per cent increase when inflation for the Town is 1.4, Mr. Parsons said it needs to be reviewed and brought into line with the rate of inflation. He asked Deputy Fire Chief Andy Morden whether there was something in the budget that could be postponed or any areas that could be reduced.

Deputy Chief Morden said the department has gone over the budget with a finetooth comb and is just trying to maintain the current level of service.

Raymond Daubney, who ran for a council seat in the November election, said the fire department budget was the most comprehensive and detailed the committee has seen so far and he doesn't see any areas that can be cut, especially since it's an essential service.

"If were going to make cuts I think they shouldn't be to essential services," he said. " I think there's a lot of other fat we can cut in the budget before we get to that."

When it came to the mayor and councillors' budget, committee members had a lot of questions, such as whether it is necessary for council members to attend all the conferences that had been budgeted.

Mayor Rob Adams said conferences are a chance for councillors to meet other people and learn about current legislation.

Cheryl Ford made a motion to review the needs of conferences, workshops and subscriptions in all departments and see if staff and council could claim the cost on their taxes. The motion passed.

At $25,000, the budget for the First Night Celebration is $10,000 more than last year, and Ms. Hunt wanted to know why, seeing as how not many residents attend.

Chair Bradley, who is on the First Night Committee, said that ever since it was started the committee had always requested $25,000, but only received that for the first year.

Mr. Parsons said entertainment is one of the first things to be cut from his personal budget. He said he doesn't know what the value of the night holds to the Town, but since it's not a tourist attraction it's something that could be cut.

Mr. Daubney, noting the Christmas party for the Town had been cancelled last year, said that in the scope of the budget $25,000 is not a lot of money to pay to build community spirit.

Trying to provide a compromise, Ms. Ford suggested leaving it at $15,000. No decision was made.

However, a motion to reduce the budget for delegations, receptions and retirements by $2,300, cut $2,700 from special council projects, and $1,000 from the public relations budget was passed, upsetting some committee members and staff.

Mr. Cameron, who made the recommendation, said it's not a large amount but it gives the perception the Town is interested in controlling costs everywhere.

That portion of the budget for mayor and council includes items such has a staff appreciation lunch, senior and youth of the year plaques, recognition of past council members, business openings and retirements.

Mr. Church wanted to know what in the portion for delegations, receptions and retirements the committee wanted to remove.

In response, Mr. Cameron said it's the committee's job to give guidance and staff's job to cut. He told Mr. Church he was out of order in telling the committee to choose what to cut.

Ms. Hunt said it was a irresponsible motion considering it's just a small price to pay for staff morale. She said the First Night Celebration is "nice to have" and easier to cut than depriving staff of small celebrations. She said it's the committee's role to make some of the tough decisions and then hold council accountable.

The meetings scheduled for Feb. 12 and Feb. 26 both start at 7 p.m.